Cataclysm: Metal Gear Solid
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Sheb
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« on: August 19, 2013, 05:41:39 am »

I was wondering if you were going to start working on factions any time soon, as this is one area of the game that never was really fleshed out in any version yet seems to hold so much promise.
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Driverboy
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 08:49:01 am »

I was wondering if you were going to start working on factions any time soon, as this is one area of the game that never was really fleshed out in any version yet seems to hold so much promise.

I don't see much game-play value there. I think the game is complex enough and it would be better to go in opposite direction, to streamline the game, make it more focused with specific missions and end game goal. Make the best of all the things the game can already do, rather than make it more complex and watered down.
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Sheb
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 08:59:00 am »

Well, they would serve as base for more complex and rewarding interactions with NPCs. BAsically form groups of NPCs you can interact with.

P.S. Any way to turn the sound down? Sometime you just want to play with your own music.
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Driverboy
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 10:02:18 am »

Well, they would serve as base for more complex and rewarding interactions with NPCs. BAsically form groups of NPCs you can interact with.

It could be cool, but who is going to write all the dialogue and back story? It's too much work I don't really have any ideas for, I don't see how to make it really interesting. I'd rather focus on combat and efficient survival dictated by limited time for each mission. NPCs can be very useful in combat but are also tactically very useful via trading, to earn money or improve your equipment. There are many things in the game like that you don't really get to appreciate with open box gameplay and unlimited time. The game needs to be focused to make all those things actually matter, that's what I think would change the game for better the most.


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P.S. Any way to turn the sound down? Sometime you just want to play with your own music.

Can't you turn it down in Windows volume control, or on speakers? You can change music if you want, just replace media files with yours, but they have to be in the same format and rename your files to have identical name as those you are replacing.
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Sheb
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 10:58:46 am »

If I turn down my speakers, I can't listen to my own music. It's pretty standard to be able to trun this thing down in the options.

Also, any reasons I cannot get larger game view than 17*17?
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 01:51:45 am »

If I turn down my speakers, I can't listen to my own music. It's pretty standard to be able to trun this thing down in the options.

Didn't have time for that. You can disable game sound by renaming or removing "audio" folder, or specific files in it.

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Also, any reasons I cannot get larger game view than 17*17?

Performance. What's your resolution?
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Sheb
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 11:52:18 am »

1280*800, on DDA I'm typically running 50*24. Also I'm not sure it affect performance that much, as everything around you is computed even if not displayed.


P.S. Can you change the forum settings so I don't have to await 2 minutes between each posts? It's quite annoying.
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2013, 07:46:17 pm »

1280*800, on DDA I'm typically running 50*24. Also I'm not sure it affect performance that much, as everything around you is computed even if not displayed.

It does impact performance for things that do not need to be computed if not displayed. -- With 16x16 pixels tile size not even 12x12 terrain size can fit properly on that resolution. I don't understand why would you want bigger terrain window when even the smallest one barely fits. Are you not playing with tiles? What font size do you use?


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P.S. Can you change the forum settings so I don't have to await 2 minutes between each posts? It's quite annoying.

Ok.
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Sheb
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 10:23:13 am »

Even if it does impact performance, why don't you simply let the player decide wether he want better performance or more tiles? Also, here's what my screen look like, with 17 tiles in height. Still got some more room.

Also, why does you lateralbar take up so much space?
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 11:21:51 pm »

Even if it does impact performance, why don't you simply let the player decide wether he want better performance or more tiles? Also, here's what my screen look like, with 17 tiles in height. Still got some more room.

Because it would impact performance for everyone regardless of selected terrain window size. I didn't think anyone would want to resize it just vertically.


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Also, why does you lateralbar take up so much space?

What bar is that? Game window horizontal size is equal to (SIZE*2+1+55) * 16, where SIZE can be from 12 to 17. It's defined by the size of the font/tiles and design of message windows on the right hand size of the the game window, plus the size of the terrain window.
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Sheb
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 02:45:33 am »

Yeah, sorry, I meant the design of the message windows. It easily take twice as much space and in CDDA. Also, how would having the option to increase screen size more would hamper performance for everyone?
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 06:04:26 am »

Yeah, sorry, I meant the design of the message windows. It easily take twice as much space and in CDDA. Also, how would having the option to increase screen size more would hamper performance for everyone?

Both are byproduct of the design that was meant for a single specific window size, that is 80x25 text console, and so 25x25 terrain window size. The impact on performance is because it was done with hard coded values and this extension to the game to allow for bigger screens still uses those maximum hard coded boundaries regardless of the area that actually ends up on the screen.
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Sheb
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 09:51:32 am »

Ok. First, why do you speak of 25*25 when the tile size is only between 12*12 and 17*17? Also, I'm no programmer, but since the games run SDL, wouldn't any more graphic thing end up being processed by the GPU? As such, since Cata's graphics are limited, you're unlikely to exceed your GPU capacity by increasing window size.

I could be wrong though.


Anyway, is it just me, or are you really averse to having people customize their game? AFAIK, changing tiles require a recompile (and since your code is hidden, no one but you can do it), changing volume require messing with files, one can't change the window size... It seems to me you're making a game for yourself, suited to your particular need, with little regards to other people. There is nothing wrong in itself with that, but it makes it harder to build a community. I actually know of a single game based on that principle with a decent following and it's Aurora, but that game is kind of in a niche of itself, while Cataclysm do have other concurrent.

Moreover, one of the attraction of roguelike is large, rapidly evolving content, but here since nothing is in .json and the code is not public, the fact is that no one except you can add anything.
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2013, 04:39:20 am »

Ok. First, why do you speak of 25*25 when the tile size is only between 12*12 and 17*17?

That's the actual size, count the tiles. 12 is just on one side, 12 on another side, plus 1 in the middle, which is 25. 12 is used internally by the game, options menu should really say 25, so instead of 17 should be 35 (17*2+1).

 
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Also, I'm no programmer, but since the games run SDL, wouldn't any more graphic thing end up being processed by the GPU? As such, since Cata's graphics are limited, you're unlikely to exceed your GPU capacity by increasing window size.

It's software rendering, so there is no use of GPU hardware acceleration. To make use of it program should run in full screen and use OpenGL, although some 2D functions might be hardware accelerated via SDL drawing functions I suppose. In any case it's not drawing bottleneck in this case, it's preparation for it, calculation of the interaction between the tiles and game variables that defines what and how will be drawn at the end.


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Anyway, is it just me, or are you really averse to having people customize their game?

No, I'll help you make modifications you want.


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AFAIK, changing tiles require a recompile (and since your code is hidden, no one but you can do it),

No, you can change or add new tiles by simply editing tile.bmp image, and in case of adding tiles also include the new entry in tileset.json file. It's really simple, look at "Graphics: sprites and tiles" thread for more details.


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changing volume require messing with files,

Changing volume requires a click on the Windows volume control. Why do you expect such high polish of a free game in beta release? There were far serious and more important issues that needed sorting out first. When was I supposed to do all that? For what, for whom, why? Isn't it cool there is music and sound effects at all?


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one can't change the window size...

Both terrain window and font size can be changed. The game is perfectly playable even with the smallest terrain window size people were playing with for the last three years with no one complaining about it. Yet you get bigger, and then suddenly it's not enough.


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It seems to me you're making a game for yourself, suited to your particular need, with little regards to other people.

As if DDA team, or anyone for that matter, is making a free game according to what "people" want. You like all DDA changes? -- Anyway, the only thing you mentioned so far that actually has to do with preference is whether the character should be able to simply walk over bushes and such without requiring extra user action. I think if you weren't used to DDA you would think that's rubbish.


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Moreover, one of the attraction of roguelike is large, rapidly evolving content, but here since nothing is in .json and the code is not public, the fact is that no one except you can add anything.

I find people actually prefer finished, balanced and polished games. I do anyway, and so my goal is to make a complete game where everything that is already in fits together, rather than having watered down bloat with never-ending balancing issues where playing feels more like bug-testing session. I am aiming for very focused strategic and tactical challenge, not time-waster where you can do many things with no particular goal. Besides, there is so much content in the game already, much more than many commercial top rated games have. It all just needs to be put together and make it all actually matter. There could already be dozens and dozens of different missions, each focusing on using different items and performing different actions. Making those missions interesting would provide much more gameplay value than hundreds of new items and weapons.

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